$500k x 5% = $25k per year and that's good enough... yada yada yada...
I mean... it's like... when people haven't gotten FI or RE, that's the first and main issue, and that's understandable.
And most of the time, a lot of people stay at this stage and don't progress to FI or RE, for whatever reason, like they have children, they get used to the lifestyle, or they feel insecure at leaving their jobs even if they are already FI. That's fine.
And there's so much focus on the front part, that the back challenges are largely, ignored or under estimated.
Which is understandable, cos... haven't cross the first issue, why would people bother about the next issue.
It's like haven't find a girlfriend, why even talk about the cost of having a kid.
So today, I'll talk a bit on this, what I've faced and how I've handled them.
"How I've handled them", cos there are many ways to handle them, I find that most people who walk this ER path, we tend to encounter similar issues, but we each will handle them differently according to how our personalities are.
I'll talk a bit on the situations before and after the decision to retire early.
1. Issues before RE - People around you, colleagues and such
The first thing most people face is the people around you.
The general population doesn't really think about retirement. So it's hard to talk about this topic to many people. When you don't follow their usual trend of going out or buying stuff, or going on flashy trips and such, it's harder to interact with people. It's hard to discuss life goals and feel connected with people especially when you feel that others are doing things which are, in your opinion, pointless.
At this point, this issue isn't too big. Cos at this point, I was still working, so we can always connect with society about other stuff, like grumble about bosses, low bonus, still can talk about our trips, they take fancy trips, I take small trips, still ok, life is pretty much normal. I also learn not to talk about FIRE topics with most people.
2. Issues before RE - Friends and family
Family is always an issue. Mum, dad, etc... BUT... it's still early in this phase. They will typically think it's just a passing phase and ignore this topic. Pretty much the same as the folks above.
There's still stuff to talk about cos... well, family right? So there's still other interactions.
Friends are pretty interesting. There usually isn't much issue with friends. At least my friends. I'm talking about actual friends. Not colleagues or acquaintances.
My friends are usually people who are somewhat like me. So we can somewhat relate. Our spending patterns, our interests, going out and eating. Pretty much the same. They may not want to retire early, but we still can connect at many levels and they also don't get judge-y, when you tell them your plans that you plan to retire early.
3. Issues before RE - FIRE community
And online, as someone who's interested in FIRE, we usually would go and visit blog sites and finance sites and learn more about this path and lifestyle. We talk about withdrawal rates and how much return is required, we get in discussions in the comments, and stuff like that. There is a common interest, same challenges, same goals, so a lot to talk about.
4. Issues before RE - Partner
There are 2 types of partners in this situation. A partner who is onboard the decision and is willing to work on it together. Or a partner who doesn't like the decision.
Probability is against you. Most likely your partner will NOT be having the same idea as you.
Most likely, your partner will not be onboard with this decision and will ignore the topic just like your family. He/She will think it is just typical grumbling about work and just a passing phase.
I don't know anything about a partner who is onboard. Cos I've never heard of one who willingly embarked on the FIRE journey with their partner who decided to embark on FIRE.
5. Issues before RE - Yourself
At this point, there's no real issue with yourself. Cos... well you decided on this journey. There is a goal, there is focus. Life looks rosy ahead. No problem.
Then the next part... the shit gets real. You actually retire.
So somehow you've left your job. And you're totally chilling. You're happy. You've worked so hard for this. You know all your mathematical calculations, yada yada yada, you have confidence the financial part of it will work out... BUT...
1. Issues after RE - People around you, colleagues and such
Very quickly you will realize that the average world around you will be very disconnected from you.
The large population will have less things to talk to you about. colleagues will drift away. Or rather, you'll drift away from ex-colleagues. Cos the stuff you connected about... well, they don't exist anymore.
You don't have to grumble about bosses, project timelines, and all that stuff.
If you never shared any other interest with these folks besides work, then likely you'll have nothing much to talk about.
The relationship at this point usually break up. Cos previously these relationships revolved around the work and work environment, and now, there's little to connect you to these people.
At the start, I used to go out with them to eat and stuff, but ... really nothing to talk about. Their problems became so distant to me that I couldn't connect, relate or contribute to. And eventually, I stopped meeting them.
This break up wasn't too bad. For me, I was ok with it. For me, I view the people I encounter as passing through different phases. For me, most people I meet are only for that particular phase in my life, we interact for that period, then when we move on, we move on.
Most of them won't become friends. Just people whom I mingle with during whatever phase of my life.
2. Issues after RE - Friends and family
Family interactions become tricky at this point.
It depends on whether you still stay with your family. If you still stay with family, then there will be a good chance for more trouble. And depends if you're always at home.
So when I stayed with my parents and stopped working for 2 years. My mum would grumble at me regularly.
If you go out regularly for whatever reason, then they don't see you as much so the interaction would be less and more similar to when you were working.
Spending extra time at home creates times when they don't know how to interact with you.
They know how to interact with you for dinner when you're back at home after work, or on weekends when you visit. So they know how to handle you during these periods.
Problem is when you spend more time with them when you used to be doing something else at that time.
When I moved out, we don't have as much interaction so she just ignores that I'm not working. BUT even until now, she does find opportunities to put in the line "then go and find work". Really. Even now I face this, I mean even NOW, when I'm in the US, when I call her, if a topic comes up that allows her to talk about it, she will.
So I try to steer the conversations and interaction. For me, I don't like to go down this path of talking about FIRE. As I mentioned above, the general population cannot handle this. So there's really no point to go into in-depth detail about how this works.
It's kinda easy for me to handle family. Cos I just need to spend similar times with them as though as I was working. Then they know how to interact with me. Then they will interact with me as though as I'm still "working" cos we will only meet on weekends, or dinner, etc.
Or if I meet other family during New Year or Christmas, then I'd just steer conversation away from work.
A good offense is a good defence. Ask the questions first and control the conversation. Talk about their kids, their trips, restaurants, etc.
Once again, friends... I mean real friends... Friends tends to be ok. We tend to interact on whatever level we used to interact on. Whatever common interests that got us there in the first place.
BUT this could be just me, cos I have few friends. I have a few friends whom I'm close to who have similar values as me. They might not be interested in FIRE, but they are frugal and we have similar values and concerns and topics to talk about.
3. Issues after RE - FIRE community
This is probably one of the more interesting changes which I felt.
The FIRE community suddenly became pretty irrelevant. For a while I was still reading blogs about finance and the usual stuff...
Then after awhile it all changed. These topics... I don't relate to them anymore. At least not in the same way as it used to.
Finance in itself is always important to me. But FIRE topics are different. Usually, FIRE topics talk about how the math works, patting themselves on the back for not indulging in expensive stuff, how to be frugal, etc...
But... somehow after I retired, I couldn't relate to this community anymore. I only follow a few blogs which talk more about life rather than finance. Cos the finance part... well, what needs to be said, has already been said.
I kind of liken it to... well... teenagers talking about sex. If you've done it, you've done it. You don't talk about it. If you are still talking about it, most likely you haven't done it. (My personal opinion)
4. Issues after RE - Other community
Which leads to the need for other interests and other community.
It's a lonely road. Most other retirees are old folks. AND they will tell you that you're too young to retire, so you can't really interact with them as well.
So you need other interests, for me, this was tough cos I never had much interest, not to mention I was razer focused on early retirement so I didn't have much of any social circle. So for quite a long time, after I quit my job, my social connections was really low and things were pretty tough and lonely.
For me, I think this is normal for people who go down this path. It is a challenge, unless you have hobbies and other social connections apart from work.
My breakthrough was the freegan / food rescue community. I enjoyed the activities. It was a hobby to me, in line with what I was interested in.
It become just like any other hobby and I could interact with the folks in that community without any reference to my work or finances.
I think this will be crucial to anyone who is thinking about leaving their job. A community beyond their work, their family. A community of common interests, kinda like a hobby.
Like a diving community, or collectable cards, or church, or fishing, stuff like that.
5. Issues after RE - Partner
This issue is one of the most crucial.
Cos most of us will spend the rest of our lives with our partner. And we don't want a bad relationship with them.
As I've mentioned above, most likely, your partner will likely not be onboard this decision.
And I've had many many discussions about this with my wife.
I've come to realize that the path of FIRE is a lonely one. Even with a partner.
For me, I highly recommend NOT trying to convince your partner to FIRE.
Instead, I suggest, managing the relationship and expectations.
*This is what I feel after discussing with my wife for years. It may or may not work for you but after these years, I feel this is the best way to handle your decision to FIRE.
So you've talked about FIRE with your partner, as mentioned above. But now, it's the time to actually make it happen. The thing is... IF your partner accepts it and is willing to work towards FIRE together, then that's fine. No issue here. And I mean IF the partner is willing to accept it wholeheartedly, and not just cos he/she has been out talked and out convinced by you.
As in they really have to believe in it.
Most likely, this isn't the case. Most partners won't be so easily convinced.
And I think it will be better to instead manage the FIRE decision separately.
Meaning, do not expect your partner to FIRE with you. I feel, it will be better this way.
As long as you, yourself, handle your own part of the finances, your partner can continue working and both of you can continue the relationship as per normal...
Your partner will have their own perception of what is a "normal" life and how they want to go around their version of normal. And it's better that they are allowed to do so.
BUT... the partner needs to be willing to live a certain lifestyle due to your decision to FIRE. It may or may not be super frugal, but likely it won't be super luxurious.
At this point, if you're still struggling with this, then likely you have the wrong partner for this. Not to mention, I feel it's not fair to expect a partner who wants to live a life of luxury to suddenly give up her dreams. He/She probably got together with you cos you were kinda in line with their thinking. So, suddenly you want them to give up their dreams, well... not fair.
So most likely, when you both got together, you should have some form of similar values. Not over spendy, living a good enough lifestyle, etc... And now that you're FIRE, you can still maintain this lifestyle.
If you want to quit your job and FIRE, that's your choice.
And they shouldn't need to FIRE along with you.
So they get to live their normal life, and you get to live your FIRE life.
So instead of trying to convince them to FIRE, the path should be... to convince them to allow you to FIRE.
Their expectations need to be managed that this is the financial lifestyle that both of you will be living going forward and are they ok with it.
If they are the kind to want to keep upgrading, then you've probably got the wrong partner for this journey.
If they are ok with a simple lifestyle. Then they can live their normal life, and you can live your FIRE life.
Personally, I've found that this is a better way to handle this relationship with a partner.
This is one of the big 3 challenges.
6. Issues after RE - Yourself
And we're back to the self...
Now that you're jobless, it's not glamourous. It's the opposite.
You're supposed to be someone who's "won" the game.
But you won't feel like it.
You've completed the bulk of this "games" issues. The main grind is over.
And yet, congratulations... you're the loser.
Cos since young, we've been programmed to view success in a certain way. Work, earn money, retire FI at 65 and hang around with your other old friends and family.
Unfortunately, you didn't manage to do this.
Somehow, you managed to do this earlier, but you're not deemed as successful. You're deemed unsuccessful by society.
And it's so ingrained in our own mentality, that we may feel that somehow we have failed.
Logically, we think we succeeded in FIRE.
But mentally/emotionally, we may believe we failed.
And so this is another one of the 3 biggest challenges of FIRE. Yourself.
Overcoming all the past programming that you've learnt since young.
Like what Yoda told Luke. "You must unlearn what you have learned."
This is tough. Cos every interaction you have will remind you of the past. When you drop your old colleagues, you still have to meet with your family, they will continue to ask what you've been doing. When you meet new people, they will ask what you are doing, and they are obviously referring to your job.
And for me, I've learnt to live a certain lie. It's easier than to explain and convince everyone of early retirement.
So I'll tell the story of sabbatical, taking a break, stuff like that. It's a lot easier, and it makes interacting with others easier. At least they can relate to such topics.
Your sense of self MUST be very strong.
For me, I'm ok with living a fake life in front of others. It is a tax. A cost of my choice to leave the work force early. The alternative is to tell the truth and seriously. It's just not worth the trouble and I feel it's unnecessary to go down that path.
The fight is constant. Cos we are social creatures. Humans feel the need to conform. Cos conforming has helped us in our lives. We need to fit in with society cos society keeps us alive. It is part of how humans have evolved. We need to be part of the herd.
So we need to find a new herd. A hobby community, etc, as I mentioned above. A group where you don't need to interact with people and discuss the financial and work aspects of life.
I've found no easy way to handle this. It is a constant struggle.
The only way I've managed to handle this is to live my FIRE life, with my wife living her normal life with an appropriate lifestyle. And we show a "fake" life to the rest of the world, where I'm perpetually on sabbatical.
FIRE... is like Fight Club. You don't talk about Fight Club.
7. Issues after RE - Time
There's really a lot of it.
I've learnt that early retirement is a lonely journey.
It's how to manage it.
As I've mentioned above. You can't really expect your partner to be on board with this lifestyle. If they are ok to leave their job, then that's fine. But if not, then you're on your own.
After 6 months, the emptiness of it all will shock you.
Most FIRE won't be having loads of cash to go and travel and have a life of perpetual entertainment.
It wasn't like that previously. Cos previously you were razer focused on the path to FI.
But now... the problem is RE.
Of course those who are still at the FI phase will be thinking. Easy for you to say, cos you're already FI.
Don't tell me about RE problems when you're already FI.
It's like rich people telling poor people that they have problems.
This is another of the 3 big challenges.
There is too much time, and you will likely not have company.
Cos everyone else is working.
Even if you have a hobby... well, everyone is still working and won't be able to play with you.
So you'll need to find a way to spend time.
So some people go back to work. It's always an option. No shame in that.
And so it's the usual... we just need to fill our time with other activities.
Community helps a lot, and depending on community and hobbies, these groups may or may not have other folk who are free to interact with you.
It's easy for me to say to find activities to spend your time. But practically, it's not so easy.
Just cos people imagine that after FIRE, one can "do anything they want"...
Well the problem is... most people don't know what to do after.
"Anything" isn't that easy to find.
For me, this issue was settled when I had the freegan/food rescue community. Every couple of days, there was something to do. Someone to interact with. Then on weekends, I visit my parents.
So everyday, there was some stuff to do. Some days I get free food, some days I prep food at home, some days I do some home admin stuff, then visit parents, and each week would pass by really nicely.
Before that period, I was stuck with this issue of too much time.
And when I was in France and now in the US, I am also having the same issue.
Too much time with nothing that I want to do.
Note, there's always something to do. Many people can give you many suggestions. Go learn a language, go exercise, go... whatever...
BUT the whole point of FIRE is to do what you/I want to do.
So just cos there's a lot of suggestions, doesn't mean I want to do those activities.
========================
The thing is... many of these issues, we won't encounter til we're at this point in life.
It's easy to say. Oh ERSG has quit his job, now he's travelling, living a chill life...
It's not all fun and roses. I've had my issues and challenges.
And I've managed to handle most of them. Some things are a constant struggle. Some things can be more or less settled.
My "time" issue was fixed, but then now I have the issue again, and hopefully when I'm back, I won't have that issue anymore.
Think about life as a game...
Almost everyone else is an NPC. They more or less have a fixed way to interact with you.
So I don't expect much.
Some people interact with you on work matters. That's the work NPC.
Some interact as family. That's family NPC.
My mum is a mum NPC. She can't interact with me on a FIRE level.
So I don't go there when I interact with her.
When you interact with them outside their NPC programming, they run into an error. They don't know what to do. So don't do it. It causes unnecessary errors to happen in your game and it's just troublesome.
Interact with NPCs the way they want to be interacted with.
The topics to talk about, the time to talk and interact with them, stuff like that.
If you talk to the NPC at the wrong time, also could lead to errors. So I try not to interact with my mum when she's expecting me to be not at home.
So... don't think of early retirement as a walk in the park. It's a work in progress. It's going to be tough and depending on how well you handle it, it could be rewarding, or it could be a nightmare, and going back to work might be a lesser issue.
Until now, I feel that I've been more or less handling it quite well. Overall, I enjoy it. There are ups and downs. It's a constant challenge with myself, with others I interact with, etc.
But if you think that it's going to be an easy path to walk, I would caution you to think more about it.
Of course if you delay retirement until 65, then all these issues will naturally go away and you'd be deemed as successful in the eyes of society.
But that's not what we're talking about here are we?
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