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Early Retirement SG

Leaving without a Job

24/1/2014

36 Comments

 
I never really mentioned. A few years ago, I left my job without another job. After 2 years of unemployment, I returned to working. Which is my current job. 

During these 2 years is the time when I really understood what it meant to be "retired". I was trying to do some financial sales during this period but I wasn't very proactive with my sales so essentially I was almost doing nothing. However, those 2 years were not wasted. It was these 2 years that I finally understood the pleasures of retirement. Resulting in my desire to get down to retirement as soon as possible.

I had grown tired of my previous employment and I was still relatively young. So I thought, what the heck, might as well leave and try something new at that time before I got any older. Explore for 2 years and if things worked out, fine, otherwise, I could always find a new job. So I left my job without another job. Some people thought I was crazy. A young chap leaving a lucrative job with nothing in mind on what he wanted to do after he left. 

I'll not talk too much on my financial sales as I didn't do too well. I know my products. But the market isn't there for people who sell financial knowledge. People don't like to buy insurance or know about financial planning. So the people who do well are those who just push products and hard sell. It's a sad industry. Most people who buy, usually don't know what they are buying. 

I'm more interested in sharing the other part of what I learnt in those 2 years. Yea! The "retirement" part. 

The first 3 months was stressful. Waking up with nothing to do. Life was always planned previously. Wake up. Brush teeth, wear clothes, go to work. Work til about 6 plus, come home, eat, bathe, watch some TV, sleep, repeat. Life is usually something like that. But at that time, after quitting my job, life suddenly became so unstructured. There was nothing very much to do. I did almost nothing for 3 months. Stressing over my lack of income, watching TV, walking around the house, practically loafing around. I told myself I had given myself 2 years to play so doing nothing is fine. I kept reminding myself that this is only for the interim. The lack of income or direction was only a short period and that I should just immerse myself into this period of my life and not get so stressed to just jump straight back to looking for a job.

After 3 months, life started taking shape. I woke up later. About 10am. I took life really slow. I went for a jog and gym for about 1-2 hours. Came home, bathe, went for lunch or met up with friends for lunch in town. Walked around a bit in town or in neighbourhoods to see how other people lived their lives. Went back home again around 4pm or so. Rested a bit, watched TV, played some PC games, waited for dinner, took a walk around the estate, sleep, repeat. Life was nice and slow. The way it should be. I had a new routine. It was a bit lonely as I didn't have any company but as I walked around, I noticed that there were many retirees doing exactly what I was doing. Except that they were much much older. You can insert some chores, financial meet ups in my routine as you deem fit. But mainly my days were slow and relaxing. I thought, "This is the way life should be."

There was only 1 problem. I could not sustain this lifestyle. I didn't spend much. But I still needed to plan for my future. Getting married, a house, settling down, etc. I needed an income source. I floundered around trying to do other stuff during the remaining of the 2 years without much success. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that the fastest way that I could build enough money to sustain this lifestyle was to go back to work, save up, invest, get a passive income and get back into this relaxing life which I enjoyed. 

So back to work it was. I went back to work with a new direction. I always saved a lot but never knew what I was saving for. This time, I had a goal. I wanted to save enough to generate a passive income to sustain my retired life. I'll probably do some simple work after I retire in future. Just to pass the day away faster and get some light income. The psychology of having a small income gives a sense of security rather than the necessity of the income. It will probably help me sleep better at night. I'm now on a good pace to my final goal.

Now, when I meet friends/colleagues who want to leave their jobs without a job, I tell them, "Go ahead! Try, experiment! Life is short (and long), it's short such that you have to try as much as you want and not regret it. It's long enough that experimenting for 2 years or so won't make a significant impact on your end." I realized that these 2 years gave me the freedom to think about things without the noise of my job and the feelings of responsibility to hold on to my job for the sake of being employed. But I'd like to caution. That some people cannot hang on past the first 3 months, cos the first 3 months will be the most stressful months, if you're able to get past the first few months of unemployment and get used to the slower life, then you can slowly think about life and take things easy. Problem I've noticed is that many people cannot let things go and take things easy. It's so easy to just go back to work again after feeling the stress of no income. Another risk the the loafing around with no direction. There is a real chance that after leaving his/her job, some folks might loaf around so much and waste their whole lives away. A target number of years needs to be set. Such that if your direction is not found in X years, then to go back to work and start saving more first. 

Think about your life. You may be 20 now, 30 now or 40 now. Project into the future when you're 55 following your current path. Where would you be? Most people would have their HDB, maybe a car, kids, sufficient cash to enjoy life, go on annual trips, etc. Life would be a routine.

Now let's try something else. Let's say you leave your job for 2 years to explore.
(I assume low risk exploration. If you set up a big business, invest all your savings and fail and end  up bankrupt, that doesn't count as exploring. That's a venture. Exploring is maybe using 10-50% of your savings to set up a small business and grow it as things get better. Or just relaxing your life like take a sabbatical to find out your life calling, etc.) 

Where would you be when you're 55?
If you succeed, GREAT! I'll not dwell much on success. You'll probably be happy. Might be rich or might not be rich but at least you're doing work which is your passion. Every day will be a good day.

What's more important is... what is you fail?
Where would you be when you're 55?
Well. I reckon, if you didn't take too much risk and are still financially stable. But just with less savings, then you'll have to go back to work... most likely by 55, you'll have your HDB, maybe a car, kids, sufficient cash to enjoy life, go on annual trips, etc. Life would be a routine.

I believe that those 2 years would not change very much of your life if you fail. If you take take calculated risks. Most people would end up at relatively the same spot at 55 years old even if they fail. So imagine. The upside is great, the downside is low. Why not try? You'll never know.

After I left my job, I now highly encourage everyone who's willing to listen to go and explore their lives. To take some time off to discover themselves or try something they've always wanted to try. There's really nothing much to lose. It's your life. You have to live it to the fullest. You owe it to yourself not to waste it. But as I have mentioned. Don't do stupid things without planning. Leaving without a job and without savings is not particularly smart. Putting all your savings into a business venture as an experiment is not wise. Besides all these, if you've planned well, have sufficient savings, wanted to take a break and re-group or re-calibrate your life, I say, "GO AHEAD!". Give yourself a few years to play around and life the way you wanted to live and try things you've always wanted to try and if it doesn't work out too well, you can always go back to where you are now, and most important of all, at least you've tried. 

To end it off, I wish that you...
Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.
- Steve Jobs' speech at Stanford




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36 Comments
Alex
27/1/2014 04:58:21 pm

Hi 5 ! I did not leave my job but that's the feeling I get during the long school holidays. I loved the moments of having no expectations and just going with the flow, doing what you want at the point in time. The feeling of freedom is priceless. As much as I liked this lifestyle, parents start coming in to nag at me to find a job. The previous generation doesn't seem to appreciate this as much as we do now.

Reply
EarlyretirementSG link
28/1/2014 10:40:03 am

Hi Alex, Thanks for the comment. Glad you've come to the understanding early in life. I forgot to mention in this post that I was not let off by my mother during this period of unemployment and had to endure the nagging for months on end until she finally stopped. Well, lucky for me, she didn't nag for the whole 2 years. She finally trusted that I would eventually do something and left it at that!

However, as much as I love that lifestyle, I remind myself not to be a liability to the people around me. Meaning I'll need a larger amount of resources so that I can sustain such inactivity for a longer period of my later life =)

I do understand the older generation's point of view. They had it harder in their time. They had less financial education as well and less options and opportunity and always living with the fear of not having enough money. Unfortunately, I feel, times have changed and that there are options for the new generation and that the older generation should accept it as long as the youths do not sponge off their parents. Else they're entitled to nag.

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Clement
2/8/2017 04:23:30 pm

Hi, just read ur post on leaving without a job. I've been working for 5 years and was thinking of doing the same. I was wondering if u faced any difficult/awkward questions when interviewing for a new job after your time without a job.Thanks.
Clement

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ERSG link
2/8/2017 05:18:02 pm

Hi Clement,
Hmm. I left without a job twice.
The first time, I had a 2 year break.
The 2nd time, I'm now unemployed for almost 3 years. Not yet 3 but soon.
During my 2 year break, I did some small business and Financial sales and property sales. After that, my old boss asked me if I wanted a job as they had a new dept. So I took up the offer.
During my current break, I have run some small business and am running another small business. Not really successful but trying out some stuff slowly.
I did go for interviews at some occasions when the fear hits and got a job offer once, which I turned down.
Essentially, I always have a story for my unemployment. Whether they buy the story is a different matter. In truth, no year is wasted.

Unless you are really planning to do absolutely nothing. But even nothing is something as long as you can tie it to some learning opportunity. I tried stuff. I learnt some stuff, I failed, I succeeded, etc.
Even if you plan to take time off to travel and explore, that itself is a story which you should be proud of.

They will surely ask you questions about the unemployment or deviation off regular work. But you must be confident of your story. If you aren't confident of your own decision then they are less likely to buy it.

And since we are in Singapore, employers are still traditional, so don't expect going back to finding work to be easy. Cos truthfully, there will be other people applying for the same role with a perfect resume. So the story must be good. I'm not saying to lie. But rather be confident of your story. Why you left, what you hoped to achieve, did you achieve it, yes, no, why, what have you learnt, etc.

There's a lot of considerations to leaving without a job. like if your family needs the money, your skillsets, how long can you last without a job, how proud are you to take a lower paying job if things get bad, are you willing to be a waiter? or drive Uber, etc.

By leaving without a job first, and assuming you are aiming to find a job again soon, the main problem is you will lose the bargaining chip of an existing pay. You can't tell the new employer, look you need to pay me more than my existing job. The employer will have the power to say, you want then take, else nvm.

So the question is, why are you leaving? Do you know it?

If you are leaving cos you cannot handle your current work/boss/etc, but cannot find a job yet, if so, I recommend staying til you find another job. Cos the loss of bargaining power is a very high price to pay and you are going to continue working anyway.

If you are leaving cos you want to explore other business opportunities, other career paths, then I would encourage you to go ahead if you have sufficient financial backing to last and your family does not need the finances. But mentally you need to be strong, cos it's a lonely road ahead. And you need to be ready to take up other jobs if you cannot go back to your current role/scope. Like teach tuition, drive Uber, etc. It's a fact you have to face.
I won't lie to you. It's not all fun and roses. It would be good to have supportive parents, spouse, etc. Not in the financial sense, but in the encouragement sense. My mother was not encouraging, she kept lamenting why I left a good job to try other things.

I'm not discouraging you either. But you need to be clear of why you are leaving and what you hope to achieve. Rest is also an objective, then you just have to build a story around resting.

Ok conclusion. Based on your question about going back to work. Means you probably haven't ended the financial journey yet. So it's probably that you want to explore other opportunity or cannot tahan your current situation or you want to rest and travel.
If cannot tahan, highly not recommended to leave cos you're probably going to return to work soon. So keeping the bargaining chip is important. Just be more active in the job hunt.

If explore, rest, travel, study, whatever, then you can build a story around it. But don't expect the pay to be great when you go back. There's a price to pay for freedom. Nothing comes for free. It's for you to assess if the price is worth it or not. And it's for you to craft a response of what you did and learnt during the jobless period. So I would say there never was any awkward questions, cos I always had a response. Unless you're planning to say, "I did nothing and learnt nothing and was lying on the couch watching Netflix everyday."
But I doubt you'll be doing that so... Good luck!!

Apologies for the long winded reply. Hope I answered your question.

Reply
Clement
5/8/2017 05:27:32 pm

Hi ERSG,
Thanks for the very comprehensive response!

I've actually saved slightly less than 2 times my annual income (inspired by the various personal blogs including yours) and planned to go to france to study french (have taken french classes on and off for 2 years in singapore). So i guess the main thing stopping me is the fear of having nothing to do when i come back.

ERSG link
5/8/2017 06:57:55 pm

There's never nothing to do. The question is always, are you willing to perform those jobs which are available, they could be better roles or worse roles.
I learnt this the first time I left.Which is why I did not fear leaving the 2nd time. Cos really, there's no real worse case scenario. There's always a job available if you're not too proud to do it.

Unless your fear is that you cannot get back the same cushy role with the same cushy pay. Then that's a different issue.

As for your story, you went on an adventure which you can only do when you are young, you learnt to be independent and studied and explored. Fair enough story. If not when you are young then there's no other time. You can't be doing that when you are married and have kids.

I assume you have done your calculations for course fees and living expenses and stuff.
Also, you may not even come back, you could even find a job there? May find the girl of your dreams there... Who knows?

Typically, I tend encourage people to go on adventures IF they do not have much financial baggage, people to take care of etc.

You really only live once. But there IS a cost to your experience. Slower retirement, falling behind your peers, etc.

So it's really for you to weigh your options and decisions and sacrifices for what you want to achieve in your own life and what kind of memories you want to create.

IF your only fear is finding another job when you get back, then really, there are always jobs in general. Whether you want to or are willing to do them is a different matter.

Examples. Look around you. When you are walking in a shopping centre, there are shoppers and there are shop assistants. We usually don't see the shop assistants cos we are usually shoppers. Or at restaurants, or the drivers, teachers, tutors, you can even sign up with NIE and teach PE. You can teach Mandarin in France. You can read up on Les Milles, it's a group exercise course from Australia, Fitness First engages Les Milles to conduct their RPM or other group exercise classes. There are people who get internationally certified to teach exercises in any country.
Real estate agent, etc.

BUT if you confirm want to go back to the same industry, similar pay, similar working hours, nice colleagues, good boss. Then no guarantee. Not impossible, it's highly possible considering you have the experience, but no guarantee.

Clement
9/8/2017 02:40:05 pm

Hi ERSG
Thanks alot for your sharing and views! Most people will always say that quitting without a job will destroy you (even with a plan) but i personally know 2 people who have done so and are doing fine now.

Reply
ERSG link
9/8/2017 06:09:01 pm

Woah. "Destroy" is a heavy word to use lol.
Depends on what they define by "destroy" I suppose. Cos some ppl really want to reach a certain position and a certain financial situation by a certain point in their lives so.... maybe to them that is "destroyed". Cos really all of that might be at risk.

It will likely set you back in comparison with your peers and probably derail stable career plans, but as long as you can live with yourself knowing that, then I don't think that counts as "destroyed".

Reply
Clement
13/8/2017 09:56:48 pm

Hi ERSG,

Thanks for the views and sharing! much appreciated :)

ERSG link
13/8/2017 10:32:11 pm

You're most welcome.
By the way, I use the Duolingo app for my French lessons.
You might want to use the app to warm up.

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    This is the link to my first post... how it all started...
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    Mindset changes
    throughout the years


    How I make use of my wife

    An Interesting Email

    Author

    Male, born in 1982. 
    INTP
    Graduated with a degree majoring in Banking & Finance, Financial Adviser for a period of time resulting in in-depth knowledge of insurance products and marketing techniques of the industry.

    Inspired by MMM and ERE.

    Decided to embark on a mission to retire early in Singapore, a place where such an idea is considered impossible. As I believe that life has a lot more to offer instead of just a working career. I've decided to start a blog to note down my journey to achieve this mission and help others along the way who are willing to listen and try doing things differently from everyone else.

    I have decided to remain anonymous until I finally am able to actually retire, reason being that this idea might not gel well with the company which I am working for currently and also to avoid real life flaming from people who say that such ideas are impossible and that an individual is lazy for choosing early retirement instead of contributing to society in the form of labour.

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