...It will be more difficult to find a life partner with the same mindset. Grateful if you could share on whether your wife is in line with your preferred lifestyle. If not, how did you manage to convince her to accept your preferred frugal lifestyle without full-time employment?
--Ben
Ok, one thing to note, this is based on my experience. Everyone is different. Everyone's partner is also different, so there's a lot of variation involved in this.
Sometimes, it's also quite hard for me to relate to some issues which readers/people highlight, cos a lot of times, I foresee or preempt the issue and I take many steps to prevent the problem before it becomes an issue, so I may have little/no experience to fix the issue when it happens, cos I typically spend a lot of time preventing the issue in the first place.
I got to know my girlfriend/wife in my Uni days and we got together on the last year of Uni. For our first few months together, obviously, I didn't care how she spent. I didn't expect for our relationship to last as long as it is now.
I would say, at that point, my wife was... what I would call, financially clueless. She wasn't really an overspender. As in she didn't go out intentionally to buy expensive stuff. The thing is... she just didn't think too much about spending. So what she saw, she wanted, she bought. And they weren't really expensive stuff, couple of ten bucks here, hundreds there, no LV or Gucci's... but she didn't have any relationship with money, it wasn't a bad relationship, it wasn't a good relationship, there was just NO relationship.
I don't know whether it was cos she was young and still mould-able or she just needed a bit of financial education. Cos she was really receptive to financial learning. She has little interest to learn it in detail, but when I told her to pay off her mother's CPF school loan first, cos that's 5% interest, she went ahead and did it quickly.
(I have a feeling/suspicion... that financial knowledge/education, you either get it or don't get it. Some people are reluctant to learn, others are reluctant to change, some people are so fixated on their consumerism and look down on people who take a frugal path.
For those who get it, they catch on very quickly, at least the basic concepts, that they know they need to save, spend less, get insured, some may invest some may not, but they understand that they need to have a good relationship with money for their future happiness.
It's the same as freegans, some people get it and catch on quickly, others just reject it, or focus on the bad aspects and lose the forest for the trees.)
So she was quite open to keeping good financial habits as long as I arranged them properly for her. How much to spend, what to spend on, looking for good deals, etc.
But this is the simple stuff, cos we weren't married yet and being a normal spender is well... pretty normal.
Normal is what I would call, people with light savings.
We stayed over at each other's parents place very early in our relationship. So we've been living together for effectively years almost 10 years even before we were married. It wasn't just a day or two every week. It was alternate days at alternate homes. So we got to know each other's living habits and spending habits very early in our relationship.
So when I talked about the quote from my dad...
Don't upgrade your lifestyle unnecessarily. If you don't upgrade your lifestyle in good times, you won't need to downgrade your lifestyle in bad times.
- ERSG's dad
She was pretty cool about it.
One good point about this is that she wasn't used to spending her own money. It wasn't like she was working for years already, and buying loads of stuff with her own money and I came along and tried to change her spending habits.
When I knew her, she was just spending like any other schoolgirl. Just buying some simple stuff, excessive food and outings with friends but it's not like it was her own money which she earned for herself and had gotten used to spending.
When we started to work, we both didn't start out with much, but I made sure to pester her to manage her bank account better. She had pretty much no opinion to this cos there was always enough to spend and a fair amount saved.
Note, at this point, any amount which was budgeted for spending is still much more than school allowance. So she never got the chance to get used to spending ALL her salary.
And my "budgeting" was always fair enough to allow her to buy stuff that was reasonable.
(*I've never really followed a hard budget)
We still went on our holidays and bought nice meals for ourselves.
Probably the first big change was when I quit my job for the first time.
My wife has always been supportive of trying new things. As long as it doesn't affect her. So when I left my job, as long as it doesn't affect our lifestyle, she doesn't really care. When I left my job for the first time, I had a good idea that I was likely going back to work again so there wasn't much difference in our expected lifestyles even in the future.
And our didn't really downgrade our lifestyle after I left my job so we were still living pretty comfortably.
The problem came along when I decided to plan for early retirement. Cos that's when I drew up plans to save up a large amount and leave my job, furthermore, I wanted her to quit as well, cos, duh, why wouldn't anyone want to retire early? It's such an awesome idea right?
Cos at that time, I never realized that people can actually be happy in their jobs and that it was impossible for anyone to love their job.
Also, at this time, she had some idea of how she wanted her future assets to look like... a car, an HDB, a condo, one of property was supposed to be rented out... something like that. So she was quite resistant to the idea for us both to leave our jobs.
And we had a couple of heated discussions about this, and I finally understood that people CAN love their jobs, and we came to a conclusion that, if I have earned a certain amount and want to leave, then I should be able to, if work makes me unhappy, and since work makes her happy, then she should, by all means, continue to work, cos why should any of us be unhappy by doing the thing that the other party wants to do.
By the time I left my job the second time, there was little reaction from her. It's the same understanding. As long as our lifestyle remains the same, she's ok with it... and by this time, our lifestyle never really upgraded from when we first graduated... Or maybe just a little.
When I switched to freegan stuff, she grumbled about the excess clutter at the start, but I myself didn't like the clutter so I stopped getting merchandise. As for food, there's no real change, fruits and vegetables are what they are... so no complaints there. Less meat on the table though, but she eats meat during her lunchtime so she took it positively that she was just getting more vegetables in her diet.
Ok so... what can we all learn here...
I think, many people aren't into overspending. HOWEVER, many people lack discipline or are easily influenced.
For us, I managed to start her off early before a lot of bad spending habits kicked in. Also I showed to her that we don't sacrifice much in terms of lifestyle when we life our way.
Furthermore, if presented in a nice way, I think a lot of people like to be secretly rich and publicly poor instead of publicly rich but secretly poor.
Between the both of us, we always try to guess the AUM or lifestyle of people around us.
It's quite obvious. It's pretty mathematical.
You estimate the number of years of experience of someone, along with their education level and job. It's easy to get an estimate of their pay. Then we look at their lifestyle habits vis-a-vis our own.
We know our own pay and our "sacrifices", we don't see them as sacrifices, but the general population would think it is. We don't have much stuff, we like it that way cos it makes the house easy to clean, there's less clutter, it keeps our home and minds clear. We don't buy stuff. There's nothing to buy on a daily basis, some food, some supplies, toiletries, make up... then there's clothes, which we also don't buy a lot.
And based on this, we know how much we can save every month.
Now, you look at the people around you, whoever you feel jealous of, or your friend or who doesn't spend a lot. Doesn't matter. I don't only try to look at those who spend a lot, I also look at those who don't spend cos those folks are also to be admired, or I even try to estimate people who THINK they don't spend a lot but when I look at them, I know they aren't considered frugal at all.
And you estimate their savings every month based on what they buy vs what you buy.
And that's it. That's all you need to know.
If you have a peer, and he/she buys a car, and you can't afford a car without giving up savings, then sure as hell, your friend is not saving. It's as simple as that. There's nothing to be jealous about. Cos we know what's the trade off.
And when we look at someone who we know earns more and can afford the car, once again, there's nothing to be jealous about, cos... well, work harder to earn more, then buy the car. But if not, then we know what we are trading off again as well.
So we are both pretty aware of our current financial position vs the rest of society.
Everything else is an act for others to see.
And I suppose that it really depends on your partner and whether you both want to work on this together.
I know some friends who aren't spendy by nature, but when they are with their friends, they are easily influenced. For us, I managed to convince her early in our relationship that this isn't the life for us and that we should strive to be able to buy assets instead of just worthless stuff.
But other friends are the leader of the pack, they ARE the people who buy the stuff and are influencing their peers to buy... now it's obvious that if you're planning a frugal life, you shouldn't be looking for such a partner.
I think as we grow older, it gets harder to change and influence our partners, I think I was lucky cos I managed to convince my wife early in her life so that she didn't pick up any bad habits. Essentially she says, "Tell me how much I can spend this month." and I'll arrange what we are both allowed to spend.
The good part about this is that we can always find partners who share our values. I know of a couple who met via arranged dating. She was a homely girl who made a good salary, and she managed to find a homely guy who also made a good pay and both of them are frugal. Both of them aren't particularly young. They both got married, they spend a lot of time together, she has quit her job cos she wasn't happy with it, they take simple walks on weekends to exercise and spend time together.
I think finding such a partner is tough, not cos they don't exist. It's cos they aren't good at marketing themselves. And that itself is a problem, cos marketing themselves (make up, clothes, shoes, bags...) costs money, which they themselves aren't willing to spend on.
Most likely, the person you're looking for is this underappreciated girl/guy in the office, she's not the pretty girl around, cos she doesn't really do much make up, she's not the popular girl, cos she doesn't want to keep up with the rest of her colleagues. Likely she lunches with the older colleagues in office cos she can't relate to the younger colleagues.
If you're looking at the pretty/handsome ones who are always at the center of attraction... geez... as I said, it's mathematical, make up, style, clothes, social influence, going out to seem hip... all these cost money.
Can't win them all.
It's highly unlikely... unlikely but not impossible, to get the pretty girl, belle of the office and yet still expect her to be frugal and life a normal life, that's just an oxymoron.
So I think it really depends on the stage of life we are all at.
Like I was young and my wife was young and she was easily influenced by me.
But even when we are older, we can just straight out look for a nice partner who is ok with a frugal lifestyle and ok with a simple life. Cos... it's actually easier when older cos we tend to be more clear in what we want, and having a frugal partner might also be the objective of the other party.
A more matured girl might be looking for a simple guy, fairly well off, able to take care of the family, of course on a first date it's not nice to say you're retired or unemployed... ... (a home trader/investor is always a nice job title). As long as there's chemistry, good conversation, and the partner is stable, not flirty... I think there are sufficient folks out there with similar values looking for a good partner.
I usually look at people who are well kept but without make up. Those are the skillful ones. Some guys are clueless, they don't know if a girl has make up on... but let's say we all know how to look.
Cos these girls and guys are those who are able to keep themselves presentable but without make up or an extremely minute amount. They may not be the prettiest girls in the situation/event/office, but this is the value that we are looking for.
Frugality. Doing the best you can with the least amount of resources.
Make up isn't free you know.
We can't look for the leader of the pack, cos she's going to be spending a lot on upkeep.
And we can't look for girls who are friends of the leader of the pack, cos they are likely people who are also spending a lot on upkeep or folks who are easily influenced, or trying to get with the crowd, so if you try to convince them after getting into a relationship with them, it's likely going to be ugly, cos they have already been contaminated by society and trying to fit in.
The "poor" (not the financial type of poor) pretty girl hanging around by herself who doesn't really put on make up, who likely doesn't hang around the "cool kids", likely under appreciated in office cos she doesn't stand out, she's likely a cheerful girl who's just out of place, but she's strong enough to keep being herself and not get influenced by the usual consumer nonsense... and THAT'S probably where/how you're likely going to find a partner who shares such values as us.
It's likely easier to "chase" these folks too, cos they don't get much attention from the rest of the office, so they are typically happy with another new found friend.
<<PREVIOUS POST // NEXT POST>>
Did you like this post? If so, could you "blanjah" me 1/4 cup of my morning coffee pls.
Many thanks for continuing to come to this blog to read my posts.